Stalker Tank Guide [RMT Updated]

Moderator: Mod

User avatar
Sesshoumaru
newb
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Sesshoumaru » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:44 pm

Fraya wrote:Depends on the fight.

Fusions: If Enrage is rolling because of constant damage, Enrage is more. If it's falling off, Siphon is more. IDK why you'd be comparing them though. Siphon is a Weapon Fusion, Enrage is a Glove.

Worth mentioning that Venom is now more TPS than Siphon.

Boost vs. Counter: Boost is considerably better than Counter. I am not a fan of Counter. On most boss fights you only deflect around once every 10 seconds. These are bosses that only average a swing every 3-4 seconds (their swing timer is 2.0, but casting makes Wildstar bosses lose their minds). So you're looking at one proc every 20 seconds on Counter, for an uptime of 30%, which is pretty pathetic for 8% Glance and 15% Threat.

Also worth mentioning on Counter, I can't be certain how the Threat% modifier is working. Some instances of Threat% add, and some multiply. If it's additive, the true value would be cut in half or more. That said, I have no idea what it is. It's very possible to test this though.


Derp moment there. I meant Siphon versus Death's Dance. I really like the additional crit and deflect from death's dance. But is Siphon(and now Venom) actually better threat then it? I feel like if we are to continue to run punish we need all the crit we can get. Or with waller do you drop punish all together? (Even hitting all your punish / steadfast procs at the right timing during frenzy this seems risky to me)
Last edited by Sesshoumaru on Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Oxtube
newb
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:19 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Oxtube » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:48 pm

I am still curious about how your abilities and amps look like when you have both waller and furor, and don't have NV and punish on your bar.

Serres
newb
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:25 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Serres » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:08 pm

Regarding new shield specials: I've only managed to pick up one so I can't compare and contrast yet, but I picked up one in GA that is absolutely insane.

Here's the item: http://imgur.com/SE5ym1g

The special reads Supercharged: When you deal direct damage while at 100% shields, drain xxx shields and deal an additional yyy damage to the target. I am in full 120 other than this, item, and the numbers are 611/792 for me.

This effect has a number of really beneficial effects that are not immediately obvious:

1.) The self damage effect procs a number of beneficial on-damage-taken effects, including:
Enrage glove fusion - I have 90% 3-stack uptime on a target dummy.
Healing Salve T4
Fleeting Density Nanites
It does NOT proc the warrior T3 amp fury, I checked =p.

2.) Although it says deals damage to shields, if you have an absorb effect on you, the self damage is fully absorbed. You will notice that this means you are still at 100% shield - since the special does not seem to have an ICD, this means as long as you have an absorb effect on you every single frenzy tick will trigger the effect until it chews through the absorb. This works with the Steath Protection effect from frenzy, absorb gadget, Fury, Spectral shield, runes of protection... Absorbed damage does not trigger the beneficial effects from (1). By manipulating this you can generate enormous burst threat. As you can see in the screenshot, this effect does 15% of my total damage versus a target dummy, this is just using Waller t8 stealths and the Firewall trinket. Actual fights vary between 5-15% depending on my healers and the amount of incoming damage.

3.) Although it doesn't state it, the effect works on as many targets as you hit with the attack that triggers it if the effect is available. The self damage only triggers once, but it will deal damage on up to 5 targets. Probably 10 with razor storm, although I haven't tested it.

4.) Sometimes, rarely, something about this effect and Steadfast triggers a self-deflect opportunity. I cannot figure out what it is, I have looked over the combat log and it does not show up and I've never seen a deflect event on the self-damage, but rarely (maybe 1-2 times a minute) you will get a Decimate opportunity when nothing's attacking you.

5.) This increases the value of Empowered Attack Mastery a ton, and that was a good amp to begin with.

This does come at the cost of adding a bunch of incoming damage to yourself, anywhere between 250-1000dps. In my opinion this is not a huge deal in most circumstances because it only triggers the effect when you're in the best position to handle it, if you've taken damage recently the effect won't trigger until you get a deflect.

User avatar
CK Jester
100 posts wooo
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:06 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby CK Jester » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:44 pm

Serres wrote:
2.) Although it says deals damage to shields, if you have an absorb effect on you, the self damage is fully absorbed. You will notice that this means you are still at 100% shield - since the special does not seem to have an ICD, this means as long as you have an absorb effect on you every single frenzy tick will trigger the effect until it chews through the absorb. This works with the Steath Protection effect from frenzy, absorb gadget, Fury, Spectral shield, runes of protection... Absorbed damage does not trigger the beneficial effects from (1). By manipulating this you can generate enormous burst threat. As you can see in the screenshot, this effect does 15% of my total damage versus a target dummy, this is just using Waller t8 stealths and the Firewall trinket. Actual fights vary between 5-15% depending on my healers and the amount of incoming damage.



this is the reason it has been reported as a bug. put it on a dps and let run with it. the absorb is affected by dmg mitigation and can be glanced as well. healers have the same shield except they apply an absorb to everyone and take shield damage. so as a dps you can make every hit apply this proc between, healers/tanks using fire wall, esper/ss using hypershield and spectral shield and esper/ss/medic using our absorb shield.

hopefully it will get fixed in next patch. it is a good shield but its better on dps because its easier for them to proc since they should only be taking periodic raid damage. but yes for threat purposes it would be decent on a stalker tank as well. after the fix itll still be good just not amazing, but there isnt any other good shield specials tbh.

Shrii
newb
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:20 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Shrii » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:28 pm

Wouldn't this thing be better for us?
No idea who took this SS.

Image

So, I just found this, I have no idea if they changed any of this since it's from the PTR.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o3Wh8XGZdYOvytg05r573ev5pZYFcVuqdWP0kSpiKIo/edit#gid=376971595

Serres
newb
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:25 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Serres » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:23 pm

I've tested the ilvl 29 Drokk siphon shield versus the ilvl 96 GA supercharged shield , and the supercharge does dramatically more damage during a standard scenario. Like 5x more. Even if these were the same ilvl this would not change significantly, it only increases the damage on the proc a little bit, the difference is both in the amount of procs and the fact the supercharge shield keeps up Enrage. This is fight dependent though, the siphon shield gets more valuable the more frequently you get hit and the harder you get hit, at some point it will be better. I would definitely keep both, but I have a feeling I would use the supercharged shield 90% of the time in its current state. Keeping up the 3 enrage stacks is really strong.

Shrii
newb
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:20 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Shrii » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:39 pm

Right, I just worry about more about damage and less about threat in this drop, so I'm not sure how comfortable I am using something that constantly drains my "health". I guess I can find out by trying it, it might not even be noticeable.
I also like the bigger shield.

User avatar
Fraya
100 posts wooo
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:55 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Fraya » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:56 am

Sesshoumaru wrote:Derp moment there. I meant Siphon versus Death's Dance. I really like the additional crit and deflect from death's dance. But is Siphon(and now Venom) actually better threat then it? I feel like if we are to continue to run punish we need all the crit we can get. Or with waller do you drop punish all together? (Even hitting all your punish / steadfast procs at the right timing during frenzy this seems risky to me)


I've still been running punish as a safety net, but I don't think I need it. The spare slot would be really nice. With regards to Death's Dance, the buff just isn't going to roll. Only on AoE tank fights are you going to be able to keep that buff up.

Oxtube wrote:I am still curious about how your abilities and amps look like when you have both waller and furor, and don't have NV and punish on your bar.


Bloodthirst replaces Nano Virus. Punish I still use a fair bit, but I drop it for interrupts and Amp Spike as needed. It's a flexible slot now.

With regards to the GA shield. I have it on my Engi right now, and it's definitely way overbudget, but that's mostly because of the Absorb thing. Siphon Spikers should be our BiS shield, but the Supercharged proc is really jacked up right now because of absorbs. It's proccing like 5x as often as it should be.
Image

You can find me on:
Daddy Fraya
Pee Pea
Fray mond

Myatha
newb
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:56 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Myatha » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:46 pm

Fraya wrote:With regards to the GA shield. I have it on my Engi right now, and it's definitely way overbudget, but that's mostly because of the Absorb thing. Siphon Spikers should be our BiS shield, but the Supercharged proc is really jacked up right now because of absorbs. It's proccing like 5x as often as it should be.


Can you explain what you mean by the absorb thing? Does it drain absorbs instead of shields first?

Hubbubbe
newb
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:03 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Hubbubbe » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:40 am

I'm a new lvl 50 stalker with tanking as main spec. Item-lvl 60 atm with Nano-virus build from the guide here. I want to get into vet dungeons as soon as possible.
For the weapon fusion rune, I'm afraid my crit is to low to keep Death's Dance up. Is it a good idea to go with the armor buff fusion rune (don't remember the name) instead?
Also, with my low crit shall i drop Punish from my LAS? Go for Preparation for the extra SP-regen and some deflect from the prep-buff. Maybe even Tier4 it for the heals I might need at my low ilvl.

Shrii
newb
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:20 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Shrii » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:49 pm

Is 120 venom currently the highest tps weapon rune we can get of all of them, crafted and dropped?

Alti
newb
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Alti » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:13 am

How is the threat going for you those days ? I mean now that MH got "fixed". I personnaly CAN'T take BT anymore because I drop threat over my best geared medics/stalkers if I do. However, with the "normal" build (using nano t8) it's going pretty well.
FYI : I'm fully BiS DS geared as are my dps'ers.

Oxtube
newb
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:19 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Oxtube » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:59 pm

How does your Augmentors LAS/amp setup looks like?
I seem to be having issues getting consistent deflects there.

Soul
newb
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:34 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Soul » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:46 am

Hey there,

I just started as Stalker Tank. First, your Guide was a great help getting a grip for the Tank. At the moment i'm just doing Dungeons an hopefully in few Days i can get some "fresh" air in GA. For my Gear I'm Using only Allavation now, but I don't know how I should rune my Pants/Shoulders, at the Moment i Got 2x2x1x1 Alleviation (Life/Life/Earth/Earth) in Ilvl 50 and 80, after getting my whole Gear on Superb Runes i think i will have about 54% CritMit. but for Dungeon I have more than enough CritMit at the moment, so should ich just get there 2x2x2 Alleviation and 2 Defince or is it better doing it like I already have?

Shrii
newb
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:20 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Shrii » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:10 am

Oxtube wrote:How does your Augmentors LAS/amp setup looks like?
I seem to be having issues getting consistent deflects there.


Yeah, I'm having the same issue. I rely more on my innate (have both class sets) and T8 amp spike as my oh-shit (I pretty much only use it when I am relatively certain my healer wont be able to get me up if I don't), but I haven't really been able to find any stalker tank who actually tanks one of the two things to ask, just "buff bitches".
I obviously still try to deflect, I use it anytime my innate isn't up, but with some bad rng it can get pretty nasty really fast.

Grota
newb
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:50 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Grota » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:56 pm

You seem to be praising deflect a lot, and yes after armor hit a certain point it's our best defensive skill, however as stalkers we have 12% from frenzy 5% base, 3% from amps and a bit from gear as well. Hitting the DR in combat is easy though. While the DR isn't punishing, it's not really forgiving either so my question is to you: Do you rune for 30% deflect in combat or outside combat?

User avatar
Sesshoumaru
newb
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Sesshoumaru » Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:37 pm

So, deem stalker changes. What are your thoughts on Steadfast T0 / T4 or the regen amp? Hell I feel like with nano you don't even really need enabler anymore at all. I still prefer running bloodthirst though. Would like to hear Mr Freya's take on most of the changes :3.

User avatar
Fraya
100 posts wooo
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:55 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Fraya » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:36 pm

Sesshoumaru wrote:So, deem stalker changes. What are your thoughts on Steadfast T0 / T4 or the regen amp? Hell I feel like with nano you don't even really need enabler anymore at all. I still prefer running bloodthirst though. Would like to hear Mr Freya's take on most of the changes :3.


Not much has changed. I run Bloodthirst 8 now on the regular, which leaves little room for flexibility in terms of build. Can't drop T8 Deci or Frenzy without losing threat, as tempting as Steadfast 4 is. The small amount of extra healing that Nano Virus 0 does now is nice, but it lost a fair bit of damage too.

There is, however, room for oddball builds. In threat-irrelevant situations, a T8 Nano Virus T8 Nano Dart build contributes a not-inconsiderable amount of healing, and tie that to a T8 Steadfast build and you can be nearly self-sustaining.
Image

You can find me on:
Daddy Fraya
Pee Pea
Fray mond

User avatar
Sesshoumaru
newb
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Sesshoumaru » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:04 pm

Fraya wrote:
Sesshoumaru wrote:So, deem stalker changes. What are your thoughts on Steadfast T0 / T4 or the regen amp? Hell I feel like with nano you don't even really need enabler anymore at all. I still prefer running bloodthirst though. Would like to hear Mr Freya's take on most of the changes :3.


Not much has changed. I run Bloodthirst 8 now on the regular, which leaves little room for flexibility in terms of build. Can't drop T8 Deci or Frenzy without losing threat, as tempting as Steadfast 4 is. The small amount of extra healing that Nano Virus 0 does now is nice, but it lost a fair bit of damage too.

There is, however, room for oddball builds. In threat-irrelevant situations, a T8 Nano Virus T8 Nano Dart build contributes a not-inconsiderable amount of healing, and tie that to a T8 Steadfast build and you can be nearly self-sustaining.



Do you ever run t0 nano with your t8 BT build or do you not find yourself needing the threat? I find it helps a lot with burst threat. I feel if I just run t8 BT without nano I find I have to use reaver and razorstorm very carefully on pulls or stalkers / medic pull off me. I refuse to not run at least t4 BT as I feel it is our niche and keeps us viable versus Warrior tanks (unless it is specific fights where BT is irrelevant due to positioning.) Thanks again for your input as always and I am assuming your amp build is mostly unchanged from before?

User avatar
Fraya
100 posts wooo
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:55 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Fraya » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:35 am

Yeah I run T0 Nano a lot now. It's bonus healing too, so it's a solid pickup.

Burst threat is going to be an issue for the time being regardless of your setup though. When Stalkers or Slingers open with good RNG they're going to generate more threat than us, and outside of a 2-tank blanket-taunt rotation it can't be stopped. I'm running around with a pink weapon and the Foil runeset and I can't stop it from happening occasionally.

Honestly, the best solution, just watch the Threatmeter like a hawk. There is no rotation you can run (on your own) to completely control the pull right now. You've got 10 seconds with Reaver and Razor Storm to let the threat table balance out, and a couple seconds before they fall off just tell anyone ahead of you to stop. Playing Threat Police will make life considerably easier.
Image

You can find me on:
Daddy Fraya
Pee Pea
Fray mond

User avatar
Sesshoumaru
newb
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Sesshoumaru » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:11 pm

Personally I really like the new changes but I was wondering what your thoughts on them are and how they have impacted your build? Personally I run t4 nano now and t4 or t0 BT. Some pairs fights I don't bring BT but instead bring amp spike and self healing in the forums of nano dart and t4 prep.

blackjeans
newb
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:50 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby blackjeans » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:26 pm

Have a few questions based on the furor changes, and from what I've observed through your logs.

Fusion: Seems most of Enigma's stalkers are using venom for the majority of the content, though I occasionally see siphon. When do you decide to switch to siphon, and are you using a weaponswap? Is redmoon a better option for initial threat on pull (which seems to be the only time threat is an issue)? I know exanite doesn't really hit the mark since the threat buff is usually gone by the intimidate.

Pull: The standard pull rotation I see is reaver --> frenzy for the debuff --> @ end of reaver use razor storm --> bt & nanovirus --> normal rotation. I occasionally see a nanovirus thrown in before the razor storm, so I was curious if this was merely user error because the razor storm almost always follows it at the end of reaver (and I imagine you would want to nanovirus after the intimidate). Or are you trying to get the NV dot in and use another one within the razor storm? Do you purposely start the pull out of stealth when you know you are doing a max duration reaver into razor storm so you can use the furor threat buff after the razor storm?

Ability Points: I don't see decimates being used early in the pull rotation at all. Are you not using T8 Decimate, or is there another reason you don't want the 25% support power for the threat dump after using razor storm? I see bloodthirst damage so it's clear you're using T4 bt. Because T3 is enough for keeping it up nearly full duration, I'm guessing T4 is simply for the threat? Could you share your current ability point setup for standard stuff because it seems to have changed a bit. Oh and punish seems to be completely gone except for Maelstrom and OT-ing; is this right?

AMPs: I've seen a few stalkers dipping further into the assault tree and some going into boost. In what order do you sacrifice defensive AMPs to do such a thing, if at all?

I know you adjust small things from fight to fight, so it might be difficult to answer these questions in a broad manner. Any insight is appreciated.

User avatar
Fraya
100 posts wooo
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:55 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Fraya » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:56 am

blackjeans wrote:Have a few questions based on the furor changes, and from what I've observed through your logs.

Fusion: Seems most of Enigma's stalkers are using venom for the majority of the content, though I occasionally see siphon. When do you decide to switch to siphon, and are you using a weaponswap? Is redmoon a better option for initial threat on pull (which seems to be the only time threat is an issue)? I know exanite doesn't really hit the mark since the threat buff is usually gone by the intimidate.

Pull: The standard pull rotation I see is reaver --> frenzy for the debuff --> @ end of reaver use razor storm --> bt & nanovirus --> normal rotation. I occasionally see a nanovirus thrown in before the razor storm, so I was curious if this was merely user error because the razor storm almost always follows it at the end of reaver (and I imagine you would want to nanovirus after the intimidate). Or are you trying to get the NV dot in and use another one within the razor storm? Do you purposely start the pull out of stealth when you know you are doing a max duration reaver into razor storm so you can use the furor threat buff after the razor storm?

Ability Points: I don't see decimates being used early in the pull rotation at all. Are you not using T8 Decimate, or is there another reason you don't want the 25% support power for the threat dump after using razor storm? I see bloodthirst damage so it's clear you're using T4 bt. Because T3 is enough for keeping it up nearly full duration, I'm guessing T4 is simply for the threat? Could you share your current ability point setup for standard stuff because it seems to have changed a bit. Oh and punish seems to be completely gone except for Maelstrom and OT-ing; is this right?

AMPs: I've seen a few stalkers dipping further into the assault tree and some going into boost. In what order do you sacrifice defensive AMPs to do such a thing, if at all?

I know you adjust small things from fight to fight, so it might be difficult to answer these questions in a broad manner. Any insight is appreciated.


Fusion: Venom seems to be better than Siphon. I'm not sure why Redmoon would be good. It's pretty RNG. Trogun's Burning Ember might be okay, I actually have no idea. It would take extensive testing to figure out exactly how its threat multiplier is functioning.

Pull: Reaver -> Wait for Debuff -> Razor Storm is pretty standard atm. The only other thing I consider important is making sure you Steadfast the first auto so you have Deci immediately. Nano Virus vs. Frenzy is pretty irrelevant. Nano Virus is not front-loaded at all, so you can just put it up whenever you want. Typically I'd stealth on the pull, just sometimes I'm lazy. My first restealth after that wouldn't come out till I was under 25, which would be long enough to reset Furor.

Ability Points: Any pull without an early Decimate is either because the boss is a numbnuts idiot and won't auto (Earth), or because I made a mistake with Steadfast. I run T8 Frenzy, T8 Deci, T4 Steadfast, and T4 BT for nearly everything. For maximum possible threat I run T7 Frenzy, T8 Deci, T8 Nano Virus, T3 BT, and T2 Steadfast, but you lose a ton of deflects. With regards to Punish, it's pretty much toast if you can get deflects.

AMPs: Well, if you really need it, go for it, but I wouldn't. There's only two bosses in the game where you'd need threat that badly, Maelstrom and Skeledroid. Maelstrom you'd be fine running whatever you like, but Skeledroid is gonna kill you if you are running around in a low-mit build.
Image

You can find me on:
Daddy Fraya
Pee Pea
Fray mond

Sleven
that guy
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:26 am

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Sleven » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:06 pm

Been running the Assault Eldan gauntlets. The special Smash gives a nice dmg/threat boost.

Do you run 8/8 Foil? Is that even worth it? 4/4 is nice for extra threat. T8 BT is nice for the lifesteal with furor decreasing it :D

User avatar
Fraya
100 posts wooo
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:55 pm

Re: Stalker Tank Guide [Drop 6]

Postby Fraya » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:33 am

I did some poking around with threat stuff, and Foil 4/8 is amazing. Its threat multi is 1125%, or 1200% with the stealth bonus up. 8/8 isn't amazing but having a pink lets me run a 3rd 5pc set, so it doesn't really hurt.

I wish T8 BT gave its extra damage at high health rather than low, makes it useless for threat.
Image

You can find me on:
Daddy Fraya
Pee Pea
Fray mond


Return to “Guides”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests